E84: Markets update, crypto collapse, Russia/Ukraine endgame, state of the podcast
2022-06-24 spoken.md · speaker-labeled ▶ watch ← E82 all episodes E85 →
Every number here is replayed from score_events — the same ledger the pool ranks on. Decay is what the 68 ideas nobody mentioned gave up this week; it applies only when an episode is processed.
Tier crossings
conviction thresholds crossed by this episode — 65 / 45 / 15 · ideas born here show where they landed. why 65 isn't always green
Kill dates that landed since E82
4 hit · 1 partial · 11 miss —
windows that closed after 2022-05-24 and up to 2022-06-24, auto-scored against price data and never hand-set.
Processed episodes aren't contiguous during backfill, so this span can be months rather than a week.
verdict ·
R ·
α
+4 more windows closed in this span — see the full track record
Who moved the board
each voice's force on conviction this episode — supports and opposes, weighted exactly as the replay applied them · share = % of this episode's movement
What got argued (23 ideas)
ordered by how hard each idea moved · quotes are verbatim from the transcript, timestamps deep-link into the episode
Retail just lost roughly $2 trillion in crypto, and governments hate nothing more than retail losing money - so the SEC, CFTC, DOJ, the Southern District of New York and state regulators like New York's DFS go after token issuers, VC token flips, NFT insider trading and exchange front-running over the next couple of years, with Congress eventually forced to assign crypto to one regulator. The compliance and legal cost lands hardest on the listed, regulated end of the industry, and discovery exposes practices (exchange side pockets front-running order flow) that have been an open secret.
there may not be a law in the books about front running NFTs, but there are laws on the books about fraud and NFT and conspiracy to, you know, grift people out of their money. So this is all going to come crashing down, and the discovery is going to be next level.
Europe, not Russia, pays for the sanctions war. Winter gas shortages plus ECB tightening reopen the EU periphery debt problem - Greek debt-to-GDP still over 200%, Italy 155%, Portugal 134%, and Italian spreads already spiking - while Germany, itself facing an energy crisis its own minister compared to a Lehman event, has to fund the bailouts. Friedberg supplies the debt numbers, Chamath argues the countries that suffer most from the sanctions architecture are the European ones, and Sacks predicts a real fracture in the Western alliance once households are wondering how to heat their homes. European financials and equities carry the cost.
we pulled and we pressured Europe to really draw a hard line. But then now are kind of working around it so that the countries that suffer the most are Europe. ... according to Europe, a Lehman like situation in terms of economic contagion that could manifest over the next months.
there continues to be escalating issues with debt and concerns about debt repayment across the EU. ... Greece made a payment recently, but Greece's debt to GDP is still over 200%. ... the spread on Italian debt has spiked over the last couple of weeks.
Chamath's second attempt at calling the endgame after his 'ceasefire is weeks away' call in March expired unfulfilled: the Macron/Draghi/Scholz trip to Kyiv is the tea leaf, Europe faces a Lehman-scale economic contagion over the coming months, and Russia has already won economically (record current-account surplus, oil flowing to China, India and Africa) and territorially (20-25% of the country, the Donbas). So the war ends in an organized, negotiated detente and ceasefire that nobody is happy with. Sacks agrees the only end is a negotiation. A settlement pulls the war-risk premium out of risk assets.
Consensus EPS is the part of the market that has not repriced yet: Wall Street still models record earnings this year and higher next year, which is impossible when 80-90% cost increases in energy and COGS cannot be passed through. Chamath's tell is Facebook dropping ~400bp on a day the S&P was up 2.5% - smart money re-underwrote the E, not the P/E - and he argues every other stock goes through the same earnings revision, so the entire equity complex reprices lower through 2022 and into 2023, hitting cash-burning unprofitable tech hardest. Jason takes the other side: layoffs, hiring freezes and ad-spend cuts mean the E could actually go up.
what they actually re-underwrote was that actually it's not that the price to earnings was cheap. It's that the E in PE was just wrong. ... I think Wall Street's wrong. And I think that earnings are going to go down this year and will definitely go down in 23 ... I think what probably happens is the entire world of equities needs to get repriced at a lower price.
we're at the beginning of the beginning. Again, we're at the beginning of the beginning. Okay, for all of us that lived through the 2000, this was four years of sheer hell and a grind. ... people all of a sudden assume that two or three rate hikes and five or six months of headlines are enough.
we engage in economic sanctions and I was the first one to say, hey, this could really work and this could be a roadmap for how to do it. And it turned out this is the roadmap for how not to do it. ... These sanctions were so porous as to be like Swiss cheese.
China's input cost has been capped. And so they don't suffer the same rate of inflation that the rest of us do. ... we allowed our largest competitive frenemy, if you will, to basically be able to, you know, drive their entire economy at 30 to 40% of the discount to what we have to pay to do the same.
wheat is down, I think, 30%, lumber is down 50%, gas prices are coming down. ... there are some of these, you know, commodity spikes that we've experienced over the past couple of quarters, particularly recently, that have had a significant part of the fueling effect on the inflationary trickle down into ultimately end products and whatnot. And those are coming down.
the amount of grift by so many of these venture firms in running these sketchy deals where they would put in some amount of money. ... You put in a little bit of equity at some crazy price and then you get these tokens and apparently there's no, like you can just sell these tokens day one.
in the US, I think the people of the country want us to be energy independent. ... it's elite opinion that bought into these foolish ideas that basically we should cancel energy independence, we should cancel the Keystone pipeline, we should cancel new drilling. America should be a net energy exporter.
the rate at which we pull the money out, which has had to be really, really fast over the last few weeks, can cause a recession. And that's the biggest concern right now is, will that actually trigger a massive recession or not that everyone's watching?
All roads, I think lead to lower equity prices. ... And so if all of a sudden you have some recessionary forces or prices go up and earnings don't, you'll have a contagion in the debt markets. You could have a contagion in the commodity market. So we're dealing with some really tough boundary conditions.
And if they don't, then we end up with like a chronic sort of stagflationary situation, where you get lower growth and inflation persists. So it's a bunch of bad options right now. ... And this is a bunch of bad options. I think, you know, we are going to have a recession.
it's like the.com crash all over again. I mean, basically you had an extremely promising technology. ... the price action got totally decoupled from the level of progress in the space. And people were not valuing these things based on real customers, real usage and real use cases, but it became very speculative.
the reason the stock market went up dollar for dollar was actually tied to the growth in the M2 money supply. The correlation was.92. So for every dollar that the Fed printed, the stock market went up by 92 cents. ... it stands to reason that if the Fed is going to take three to five trillion dollars of value out, then we have to rerate the equity markets by three to five trillion dollars at a minimum.
They're predicting, they're forecasting that capital availability is going to decline about 75%. The amount of money that's venture money that's available to the ecosystem downs by three quarters. So if you try to raise in that environment, either you're not going to be able to, or investors are going to have all the leverage.
Anecdotally, I'm seeing people come back from rounds where they were expecting 40 or 50 million dollars. In some cases, like with 250K in revenue, 500K in revenue, they were living in a 200, 300 times revenue kind of world. ... they're now coming back with 10 million dollar caps, 15 million dollar caps on their notes.
Episode digest
written during extraction and stored in data/extractions/ep084.json — the auditable source of truth, including everything market-adjacent that did not earn a capture
The first episode after a month off, and the housekeeping half is a genuine equity fight (Jason asked for 6-10% more of the pod, got told no, they re-signed at 25% each) with zero market content - but the market half is one of the highest-value scoring episodes of the year, because the crypto cascade the besties called in January had fully detonated by tape day: Terra/Luna to zero, 3AC insolvent, BTC -71% from $69k with an $17k print on June 18, ETH -78%. LABEL DEFECT, TWO-PART: Friedberg has ZERO labelled turns despite being addressed by name four times, and content-checking shows the file only has three diarization clusters for four speakers - label 'Chamath Palihapitiya' is actually FRIEDBERG (that label refers to Chamath in the third person four separate times: 'as Chamath pointed out', 'You don't like that valuation, Chamath?', 'I know Chamath thinks that people are going to give that money back', 'And then Chamath is right, the way it gets resolved is a congressional act', and it answers both of Jason's direct 'Friedberg, ...' handoffs), while the real CHAMATH is merged into Jason's label (Jason-labelled turns say 'Jason, look in the Wall Street Journal today', 'Jason, it's not illegal', 'We're getting circles run around us by China, Jason', 'Give me the forecast, J. Cal', and 'I put that on the Warriors'). Sacks' label is clean. Every attribution here is from content, not labels. Also note the transcript has a ~13-minute hole: turns jump from 5:07 straight to 18:09, so the top of the markets segment is missing. On the annual predictions: Sacks collected twice - crypto-bubble-shakeout ('it's like the.com crash all over again') and his own qe-end-liquidity-drain ('crypto is like a liquidity sponge... now that sponge is getting wrung out') - and Chamath handed him the quantified version of the same call, 0.92 M2/equity correlation from his annual letter, $3-5T of liquidity out means $3-5T of market cap out plus another 20-30% for earnings. Four reversals, all consequential. Chamath doubled down on abandoning his own eighth-inning bottom call - 'we're at the beginning of the beginning. Again, we're at the beginning of the beginning' - and disclosed the position that goes with it: he turned down $100m at a 50% discount and would not give up $100m of cash in the bank right now. Chamath also explicitly reversed on sanctions ('I was the first one to say, hey, this could really work... it turned out this is the roadmap for how not to do it'), Friedberg quietly reversed on his own ukraine-fertilizer crop-shortfall call by noting wheat -30% and lumber -50%, and Jason - the author of us-boom-2022, who was still defending it as recently as E74 - conceded 'if you're under 40 years old, you don't understand what you're about to experience.' Nobody mentioned Tether, Celsius or battery metals. New ideas coined because their registry equivalents had already expired or did not exist: the consensus-earnings reset (Chamath's 'the E in PE was just wrong', Jason taking the other side on cost cuts), a multi-year crypto enforcement wave (three voices, Friedberg's DFS/CFMA history the strongest), the EU sovereign-debt-plus-energy crunch (Friedberg's Greece 200%/Italy 155%/Portugal 134% and the Italian spread spike), and Chamath's fresh Ukraine endgame call now that his March 'ceasefire in weeks' idea has expired unfulfilled. Judgment calls to second-guess: marking Jason's 'you don't understand what you're about to experience' a reversal on us-boom-2022 when he never says the words 'I was wrong'; and marking Chamath's sanctions statement a reversal on sanctions-blowback-emerging-markets-2022 - he is reversing on the premise ('sanctions are the right call') while the tradeable leg (EM pays the cost) arguably still stands, since he insists commodity prices doubled and tripled.