E146

E146: Did the Fed break the VC model? Plus IPOs, M&A, revaluing unicorns & more

2023-09-22 spoken.md · speaker-labeled ▶ watch ← E144 all episodes E147 →

4
ideas born
22
ideas moved
38
captures · 4 voices
2
dissenting
+373.4
conviction added
-107.5
decay · 103 silent

Every number here comes from the conviction ledger — the same one the pool ranks on. Decay is what the 103 ideas nobody mentioned gave up this week; it applies only when an episode is processed.

Tier crossings

conviction thresholds crossed by this episode — 65 / 45 / 15 · ideas born here show where they landed. why 65 isn't always green

▲ +18.9 📈 Down-round IPOs wipe out the late-stage preference stack watch → green threshold 62.8 → 81.7 still dormant — needs 2 besties on board
▲ +14.1 🏦 Phase three of the 2023 crisis is a US government debt crisis watch → green threshold 61.3 → 75.4 still watch — needs 2 besties on board
▲ +13.3 🏦 Inflation stays sticky in 2023 — the wage chapter watch → green threshold 56.1 → 69.4 still dormant — needs 2 besties on board
▲ +65.2 📈 Venture's alpha does not clear liquid alternatives — LP money leaves the asset class born at green threshold 65.2 still watch — needs 2 besties on board
▲ +65.2 📈 The UAW deal is existential for the unionized US automakers born at green threshold 65.2 still dormant — needs 2 besties on board
▲ +24.2 🌍 The US consumer taps out in 2023 — recession unavoidable ember → watch 40.6 → 64.8
▲ +8.8 🤖 SaaS seat contraction — net revenue retention goes below 100% ember → watch 41.6 → 50.3
▲ +14.5 📈 Private capital concentrates in a few mega-GPs that take themselves public ember → watch 35.7 → 50.2
▲ +23.9 📈 Model Y becomes the best-selling car in America ember → watch 24.7 → 48.6
▲ +9.2 🤖 Own the top 30% of global tech and hold it five to ten years ember → watch 39.0 → 48.1
▲ +35.0 📈 Shopify's ecosystem equity stakes are free optionality in the sum of parts born at ember 35.0
▲ +35.0 📈 Take-rate decay caps the GTV marketplaces — model Instacart down, not up born at ember 35.0
▲ +16.0 📈 Gig/supply platforms win 2023 as unemployment gets sticky dormant → ember 11.3 → 27.3

Kill dates that landed since E144

1 hit · 0 partial · 4 miss — windows that closed after 2023-09-01 and up to 2023-09-22, auto-scored against price data and never hand-set. result · return · vs SPY

Who moved the board

each voice's push on conviction this episode, in conviction points — supports and opposes · share = % of this episode's movement

Chamath
Chamath
15 captures · 59% of movement · 4 ideas born
+227.3 / -40.8 → net +186.5
Jason
Jason
10 captures · 21% of movement
+96.9 → net +96.9
Sacks
Sacks
11 captures · 17% of movement
+75.9 → net +75.9
Friedberg
Friedberg
2 captures · 3% of movement
+14.1 → net +14.1

What got argued (22 ideas)

ordered by how hard each idea moved · quotes are verbatim from the transcript, timestamps deep-link into the episode

NEW ▼ BX 📈 Venture's alpha does not clear liquid alternatives — LP money leaves the asset class closed 54 ▲ +65.2 0.0 → 65.2

The Fed broke the VC model. Run the Instacart-vs-S&P chart at every entry point and venture's excess return over the index is thin (the 2015 Series C generated ~32% alpha over eight years, the 2018 Series F was negative), and that thin alpha now has to beat 5-6% T-bills and 11-13% structured credit that are liquid and far less volatile. So LPs do the arithmetic and cut: fewer managers, smaller commitments, and materially less total capital into venture in aggregate. The listed read-through is the alt-asset managers whose fee streams depend on LP appetite for illiquid alternatives, plus the venture-backed cohort that gets starved of follow-on capital.

plays BX ·primary IPO KKR evals 2024-09-22
Jason
Jason support ×2 positioning ▶ 33:44
two-thirds of the meetings I'm having, people are saying we're not adding managers, we're cutting managers, and we're cutting commitments to managers
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 48:29
when people do the calculations on what the true alpha of venture capital is, they're going to come back with answers like this, which is it's not that great ... because the alternative universe is more liquid, it's less volatile, and it has roughly the same amount of return
Friedberg
Friedberg support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:21:57
On a day-to-day basis, it means there's going to be less companies that are going to get funded, but more importantly, there's going to be less LP money going into venture
NEW ▼ F 📈 The UAW deal is existential for the unionized US automakers closed 10 ▲ +65.2 0.0 → 65.2

Chamath's numeracy argument on the 2023 UAW strike: sensitize Ford, GM and Stellantis P&Ls to the terms the union has actually proposed and the legacy Detroit cost base stops working — his Ford pro forma swings from ~$30B of profits to ~$17B of losses, a $47B swing. The only offset is more expensive cars, which cannot be sold into 7-9% consumer lending rates, so the structural gap to non-unionized, highly automated builders (Tesla, Rivian) becomes unbridgeable and the eventual pension/bailout tail lands on the taxpayer. Bearish the unionized OEMs specifically, not the auto market.

plays F ·primary GM STLA evals 2024-09-22
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:26:07
the auto companies are facing what you'd expect to be reduced demand because no one can afford a car payment at these higher interest rates, the unions are going on strike demanding
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:26:27
I think that the labor deal is an existential risk to the unionized auto industry in America. ... If the deal as announced happens and you sensitize Stellantis, GM and Ford's P&L to these new terms ... it's going to be very difficult for the established auto industry to survive
Jason
Jason support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:28:38
They work, I looked it up, 58 to 64 hours a week, factory workers. The US factory workers want to work 32 hours a week. ... I mean, they're just going to move these factories to Mexico or
NEW ▲ SHOP 📈 Shopify's ecosystem equity stakes are free optionality in the sum of parts closed 5 ▲ +35.0 0.0 → 35.0

Chamath's sum-of-parts read off the Klaviyo IPO: Shopify quietly owns ~11-12% of Klaviyo, ~13-14% of Flexport after selling Deliverr into it, and probably a non-trivial share of Stripe — an ecosystem-building strategy that converts partner support into balance-sheet equity. Against only ~$2-3B of cash and equivalents in the market's valuation, those stakes are not being priced, so there is upside in SHOP 'just for free'. Disclosed as an unowned, un-modelled observation rather than a position.

plays SHOP ·primary evals 2024-09-22
Chamath
Chamath support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 58:21
Shopify actually owns like 11% of this company ... if you do some of the parts on Shopify, their cash and cash equivalents are only valued at like 2 or 3 billion. So I feel like there's a ton of upside there just for free.
NEW ▼ CART 📈 Take-rate decay caps the GTV marketplaces — model Instacart down, not up closed 5 ▲ +35.0 0.0 → 35.0

Chamath's underwriting frame for the newly listed Instacart: businesses that intermediate large gross transaction values have never historically defended their take rate, because either competition or supplier pricing power erodes it. In grocery specifically Walmart and Amazon will do the same job for much cheaper, so the honest model is a declining take rate against growing share. Layer on contracted advertising multiples — the market discounts ad revenue as too levered to rates and the economy, and Facebook/Google take an increasing share of it — and the ad-led revenue mix does not rescue the valuation. Airbnb is the same shape one step further along, with regulatory capture (New York) doing the take-rate damage.

plays CART ·primary ABNB evals 2024-09-22
Chamath
Chamath support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 51:58
for these businesses that drive huge GTVs, gross transaction values, is I think most people, when they try to find what they're worth, are very sensitive to the take rate ... take rate tends to decay. So said in, you know, in grocery land, I think it's because Walmart and Amazon will try to do it for much, much cheaper ... I think that you have to model the health of the business with a declining take rate and growing share.
▲ TLT 🏦 Fed's bank funding facility only kicks the can — massive rate cuts are the exit closed 6 POD DISAGREES ▼ -26.4 44.1 → 17.6
Chamath
Chamath reversal ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:17:07
I told my CEOs, guys, let's get enough cash to last through the middle of 25 Remember, I was pretty clear about that to folks. ... I think that that was wrong. ... I think now you got to be Q1 of 26 and maybe even mid 26 ... So I was wrong by at least a year, Jason, because of this. I think I got the words right, but I got the timing wrong.
▼ XLY 🌍 The US consumer taps out in 2023 — recession unavoidable closed 4 POD DISAGREES ▲ +24.2 40.6 → 64.8
Jason
Jason support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:24:51
They're going to skip an iPhone cycle. Instead of going from 13 to 14 or 14 to 15, they're going to go 13 to 16, 14 to 17 ... They're going to skip upgrading their car.
Chamath
Chamath support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:25:21
some of these industries where you have these large ticket purchases that drive consumer consumption, their backs are against the wall ... I do think that you're going to just have a little bit of belt tightening in the consumer.
Sacks
Sacks support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:31:16
Meaning everyone's talking about a soft landing. Everyone's banking on a soft landing. But soft landings are actually exceedingly rare. ... When you have very fast rate tightening cycles, it generally has a very predictable effect on the economy. There's a lag, but the effect is very predictable, which is it causes recessions. ... But I think the consumer hasn't been hit yet.
▲ TSLA 📈 Model Y becomes the best-selling car in America closed 14 ▲ +23.9 24.7 → 48.6
Jason
Jason support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:27:47
When I bought my Model Y long range, I think I paid 72 for it. ... That car is now 53 That's down 20 percent, a $13,000 savings. The Model Y long range, I think, is the greatest vehicle ever made.
Chamath
Chamath support ×1 explicit_prediction 36mo horizon ▶ 1:28:16
The best car. And, yeah, that'll be a $40,000 car in the next three years.
▼ SFTBY 📈 Down-round IPOs wipe out the late-stage preference stack closed 15 ▲ +18.9 62.8 → 81.7
Chamath
Chamath support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:07:24
I think most of these unicorns are worth less than their total press stack.
Sacks
Sacks support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:08:08
I think their only hope is to go public, because that wipes out the pref stack and everyone basically just owns their percentage of the company.
Jason
Jason support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:09:05
My understanding of some of these late rounds during peak ZERP 2021 from talking to Bill Gurley was people did not negotiate those rights
▲ BIL 🏦 Cash + front-end T-bills are the place to be in 2023 closed 39 ▲ +16.6 45.1 → 61.8
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 48:29
when prevailing rates are at five or six percent, and you can own those things or you can own structured credit for 11 to 13 percent, our business, unfortunately, does not look so good
Jason
Jason support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:20:32
You've got to beat 5%, 6%, 7%, or whatever people are going to get on those other instruments, corporate debt, you know, 10%, 11%, 12%. You've got a really hard bogey to beat here.
▲ UBER 📈 Gig/supply platforms win 2023 as unemployment gets sticky closed 17 ▲ +16.0 11.3 → 27.3
Chamath
Chamath support ×1 sentiment ▶ 54:42
I think of all the three businesses, Dash probably has the biggest upside ... I don't own any of these three stocks. I'm just saying business model quality, Dash seems infinitely scalable.
▲ BX 📈 Private capital concentrates in a few mega-GPs that take themselves public closed 40 POD DISAGREES ▲ +14.5 35.7 → 50.2
Jason
Jason support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 49:27
They're cutting two funds out of their 20, and then they're cutting their commitments to the weaker ones of the other 18
▼ TLT 🏦 Phase three of the 2023 crisis is a US government debt crisis closed 87 ▲ +14.1 61.3 → 75.4
Chamath
Chamath support ×2 explicit_prediction 12mo horizon ▶ 10:45
the forcing function will be the debt service costs, which has just crossed a trillion dollars a year just to pay the interest and it's mounting. 30% of our debt, I think, is coming up for refinancing in the next 12 months. And it's going to refinance at a 5% rate
Friedberg
Friedberg support ×1 sentiment ▶ 11:10
The federal budget will get naturally constrained at some point here.
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:19:00
we're running almost $2 trillion deficits in peacetime ... Do long-term rates keep going up based on the debt financing needs of the federal government?
▼ TLT 🏦 Inflation stays sticky in 2023 — the wage chapter closed 8 POD DISAGREES ▲ +13.3 56.1 → 69.4
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction 12mo horizon ▶ 1:15:08
the markets were really trying to force Jerome Powell to start the cutting cycle. And now they had to move the date at which they could expect cuts out by a year. ... You're going to have to reprice a lot of risk assets.
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 explicit_prediction 12mo horizon ▶ 1:18:02
And the reason is because the market had started to price in rate cuts next year. ... So as a result of that, interest rates are going to stay higher longer, which means that risk capital will be less available.
▼ BX 📈 Private venture marks are stale by design — nobody is paid to fix them closed 43 ▲ +9.7 65.1 → 74.8
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 sentiment ▶ 57:17
they're kind of the ceiling, you know? So I think founders still have maybe unrealistic expectations from the days when SaaS businesses were being valued at 100 times ARR
Jason
Jason support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:09:05
If you look at the Ford price to sales multiple, 78X for an $11.7 billion valuation at $150 million ARR ... Mondays at 12X plus, Asana 66X, and Smartsheet's at just around 8X
▲ QQQ 🤖 Own the top 30% of global tech and hold it five to ten years closed 6 POD DISAGREES ▲ +9.2 39.0 → 48.1
Chamath
Chamath support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:15:08
So unfortunately, that's going to hurt everything that's not the top seven tech companies. ... So it's really good for the magnificent seven. I think it's really bad for everything else.
▼ CRM 🤖 SaaS seat contraction — net revenue retention goes below 100% closed 53 ▲ +8.8 41.6 → 50.3
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 31:04
I think Jeremy Ball's substacks showed that the average growth forecast for SaaS companies for the next 12 months had been cut roughly in half. ... That meant they were buying a lot less software on a per-seat basis. So I think we've been through, call it a B2B or enterprise recession.
▼ Z 📈 Mortgage rate lock-in freezes housing turnover closed 23 POD DISAGREES ▲ +8.0 46.7 → 54.7
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 31:04
Mortgages, the rate now is approaching 8%. So no one can afford to sell their house, which has a 3% mortgage, and then buy a new one at 8%. So real estate transactions have cratered.
▲ MSFT 🤖 AI collapses the cost of knowledge work to ten cents on the dollar closed 24 POD DISAGREES ▲ +7.6 49.6 → 57.2
Jason
Jason support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:05:07
I asked him about hiring and the size of the company said, I'm not hiring anybody in the next year or two because all my developers are 30 or 40% better ... I got senior developers who are turning into 10x developers. We're not hiring. We're just going to have increased margin.
▲ ITA 🏛️ Nobody's incentives point at de-escalation — the war economy ratchets up closed 51 POD DISAGREES ▲ +6.4 57.5 → 63.9
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 9:07
both Republicans and Democrats want more military spending. I don't hear anybody really argue for cutting military spending ... but the Democrats are completely on board with war now
▼ BXP 📈 Office commercial real estate reckoning — SF towers go to the banks closed 65 ▲ +4.9 67.3 → 72.2
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 31:04
The commercial real estate industry is on its last legs. I think they're starting to throw the keys back to the bank and start forfeiting buildings because they can't refight an attractive rate.
▲ IPO 📈 The IPO window reopens - but only at a real discount to 2021 marks closed 35 POD DISAGREES ▲ +1.9 58.6 → 60.5
Jason
Jason support ×2 sentiment ▶ 24:11
Six quarters of down market has suddenly turned into a bunch of green shoots.
Chamath
Chamath oppose ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 25:56
I don't think that this was the great reopening that we all were hoping for. ... net-net, very poor IPO construction by the banks, and the grand reopening was a grand closing, I think.
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 31:04
it's sort of a green shoot that they got out, but we're never going back to the valuation levels that we had a couple of years ago during a giant ZERP-created asset bubble
▼ IPO 📈 Startup mass extinction event in late 2023 and 2024 closed 35 ▲ +1.7 90.6 → 92.3
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:10:29
New options are issued and a round is done at a significant discount. And there's a huge recap and a pay to play and all this other sort of stuff starts to play out that the original founders in the company get wiped out. ... I think that's the scary scenario that's likely going to play out

Episode digest

written during extraction and stored in data/extractions/ep146.json — the auditable source of truth, including everything market-adjacent that did not earn a capture

Post-All-In-Summit episode dominated by the Instacart/Klaviyo/Arm IPO week and the Fed's hawkish hold. Chamath calls the reopening a failure on mechanics — sub-10% floats, no anchor buyers, no lockups — so 'the grand reopening was a grand closing', while Sacks reads the same tape as a green shoot at a permanently lower valuation level. The core new thesis is the episode's title: run venture's alpha over the S&P at every Instacart entry point and it does not clear 5-6% T-bills or 11-13% structured credit, so LPs cut managers and total venture capital shrinks. Chamath takes his 'higher for longer' victory lap and in the same breath reverses his own March-2023 call that the Fed would be forced into cuts — he now tells portfolio CEOs to fund to Q1/mid-2026 and says he was 'wrong by at least a year'. New tradeable coinages: the UAW deal as existential for Ford/GM/Stellantis against non-union Tesla/Rivian (his Ford pro forma is a $47B swing), Shopify's unpriced Klaviyo/Flexport/Stripe stakes, and take-rate decay as the right way to underwrite Instacart. Friedberg's Science Corner on glycosylated-antigen 'inverse vaccines' for autoimmune disease was captured as no idea — novel modality, but academic-stage with no listed instrument. ATTRIBUTION FLAG: Friedberg has zero labelled turns and is merged into Chamath's label; his two captures here (11:10, 1:21:57) are each confirmed by another host naming him immediately before or after, but the long unicorn-recap monologue at 1:10:29 is attributed to Chamath on receipts (he is the one doing recap rounds this week) and is worth an audio spot-check.