E57: Understanding Omicron, tech stocks plummet, VC's great resignation, Jack Dorsey's departure
2021-12-04 spoken.md · speaker-labeled ▶ watch ← E56 all episodes E58 →
Every number here is replayed from score_events — the same ledger the pool ranks on. Decay is what the 88 ideas nobody mentioned gave up this week; it applies only when an episode is processed.
Tier crossings
conviction thresholds crossed by this episode — 65 / 45 / 15 · ideas born here show where they landed. why 65 isn't always green
Who moved the board
each voice's force on conviction this episode — supports and opposes, weighted exactly as the replay applied them · share = % of this episode's movement
What got argued (19 ideas)
ordered by how hard each idea moved · quotes are verbatim from the transcript, timestamps deep-link into the episode
The real problem is all these companies that I think raised a lot of money in private markets are now going to get stuck because if the public markets have compressed multiples by 30 to 50%, they are the ultimate buyer. ... All these private businesses and then all of the ones that were planning IPOs in the next 12 to 18 months are probably in a little bit more of a challenging spot than they were before.
if you look at private markets, it's obvious that they were getting ahead of themselves. ... So the idea that a private company with 20 million or 30 million in SaaS revenue was worth 50, 60, 70 times that, that's not the case right now in the public markets. And maybe it goes back down to 20 or 30, but you just have to have that runway to land the plane, correct? ... the sense of entitlement I'm seeing on all sides of the table right now, from founders to board members to investors, it just seems like everybody's in some sort of mad dash to secure some bag by any means necessary. And there's no focus on the customers and the product and the team.
Keith and I just talked about how we're about to enter a very different kind of macro environment for growth stocks. And we don't know how long it's going to take. ... But there's no question that multiples and valuations are going to come down. And there's a lot of younger founders and investors who never lived through a bear market or a down cycle. And they're about to get a rude awakening.
Chamath's December-2021 spread against his own growth-multiple bearishness: with money-losing software stories selling cash flows 10-12 years out no longer buyable, the ONE category of long-duration company he says he is still buying is deep physical science and R&D, because the payoff in success is so asymmetric that it clears a risk-adjusted bar even with a non-zero discount rate. Disclosed as active positioning while he de-levers the rest of the book. Expressed through the listed hard-tech / deep-physical-science complex rather than the high-multiple software cohort he is trimming.
There is one kind of version of that company, though, that you can buy, in my opinion, and what I am still buying, which is deep physical science and R&D, because those businesses in some ways are still on a risk-adjusted basis, in my opinion. ... the outcome in success is so asymmetric. Those are really interesting to me businesses in moments like this where, you know, if I'm, if I'm de-levering my portfolio, that's how I'm thinking about it, which is I want to make those kind of bets in the future.
Look, the week before when I started to trim, it was like, oh, how dare you, blah, blah, blah. ... So I started to trim and I'm so glad that I did because it was, you know, 10 days ahead or a week ahead of all of this craziness. ... The multiples on these companies are shrinking. Companies like Snowflake and Peloton, Cloudflare, Zoom, we're trading at 70 to 100 times revenue and people are re-evaluating whether those multiples are worth it irrespective of the quality of the company
Chamath, can we then look at this as, hey, the era of we're going to give a lot of credit to companies for, you know, what's going to happen in the next 10 years? ... The 10 year outcome that we saw, Rivian came up, you know, and then many other stocks and obviously crypto falls into this. This idea of giving people a decade of forward-looking credit maybe is going to come back to. ... Let's weigh these and look at earnings or maybe two years of credit.
And they can't do that now because interest rates, let's say interest rates climb to three and a half percent. I can go make three and a half percent by putting my money in for a 10-year bond. ... It's a little bit harder to make a bet on a 10-year horizon because interest rates are no longer 0%.
over the last 10 years, we've basically had record good times because of this low interest rate environment, right? And low interest rate environments are fantastic for growth stocks. Now, it looks like we're moving into an environment in which inflation is certainly not transitory. We don't know how long it's going to last for. ... And so the next decade may not be as good for growth stocks.
I just sent you a link to freight rates for cargo ships coming from China to LA. ... It's dropped by 50% and it's continuing to drop week after week right now. And we're seeing the same in lumber prices right now. ... these pricing issues that we've been seeing in the recent term may in fact still be transitory. We may see them work their way out at the end of 2022 And we're starting to see the early signs of that actually playing out.
I'm definitely out of here. If the boss of San Francisco is out of here, I'm definitely out of here. But I have some people, some other people to convince. ... This is the logical result of everything I've been warning about since the beginning of the year. You have prosecutors like Chase Aboudin who have essentially decriminalized theft by refusing to prosecute it.
We walked through Union Square and it was cordoned off with cop cars at every intersection. ... Every single store has had every single window boarded up like it's a hurricane season. ... But like Zara, The Gap, Nike, every single storefront has been boarded up. And then there are security guards outside and you have to make an appointment to go Christmas shopping.
Listen, guys, we're not going back to lockdowns no matter what happens with the Omicron thing. We're not going to do school closures. ... What you're going to see is Omicron will be everywhere very soon. There's nothing that policymakers can do to stop it.
we are moving the world back into a more, you know, decentralized place, right? The centralization was this just-in-time, you know, single supply chain, single point of failure existence. ... the solution to fixing the core structural inflation we have is going to take a decade. ... Inflation is now here. I think it's here to last. I've been pretty consistent about this. ... And this is the real reason why we're going to have a few years of pain. ... Structural inflation is here. We've under invested under invested at the macro level, and we've completely distorted people's incentives to work at the micro level.
For the first six months of the year, all you heard out of Washington, the administration, was this inflation was transitory. That story has basically collapsed because now people can see that it's persistent. ... They're now pricing in the risk of interest rate increases.
what's really important now is how policy makers are going to respond to this, right? Because there is a press cycle, there is a bit of a hysteria, everyone's asking me about it, everyone's freaked out about it, everyone's worrying about it. ... And the question is, are we about to face more lockdowns and things that are going to be adverse to the economy and how are markets going to react? ... And that seems pretty scary right now.
So look, one thing that seems pretty certain, this variant is going to be everywhere fast. ... The R0 on this could be as high as 40, which is, you know, measles by comparison is 12 to 13 ... it's got incredibly good evasiveness around people that have the vaccine or have had the virus. So it's going to spread like crazy.
Chamath, is it not true that we are seeing a bunch of these SPAC deals and new issuances come out to market with converts attached to them? ... At least that's what I'm hearing from bankers is kind of the rumbling in the SPAC and pipe market right now, is these kind of protective new types of equities that are coming out in order that the investors can kind of keep their mark on their private valuation rounds, but get the company out to public, but the public market is getting a better deal than just straight common equity.
Look, it's like bringing Pepto-Bismol to Mexico. If you're worried about an upset stomach, don't go to Mexico. ... The minute that you're trying to wrap all these features around something, the nature of those kinds of features is that it's trying to subsidize what is otherwise not a clear, simple, buyable story at that price. So either change the price or change the company.
the last three major drawdowns have been the dot-com crash, then the financial crisis and then the COVID crash. All of them had true systemic risk that caused kind of, there's all these ripple effects and secondary effects. For all you guys, it seems to me that this time what's going on is a devaluation that doesn't have systemic risk attached to it.
myself and Fortress, we did this deal a few, a year ago to bring this company public called MP Materials. And the whole idea was to start to build diversity in the supply chain, to build a decentralized supply of all kinds of things. ... we have massively under-invested in the level of infrastructure we need to support ourselves.
the government changed their formula for what is considered a conforming mortgage. I think it kicks in in January and essentially it basically allows US homeowners to have a million dollar mortgage and have it essentially be conforming. ... So worse terms become better terms. You have more equity. You can pull out more money. I think that people will spend that money. And so even on the consumer side, I think that you have an impetus to spend.
We had this happen in 2018 because in 2018 it looked like there was going to be inflation. ... Powell basically killed the market, he raised rates, and then it turned out he was completely wrong and China was okay and everything was fine, and then the market just completely violently snapped back. Again, this is what I'm saying, which is it's too early to tell whether this is just a short-term opportunity for people who have made a lot of money to de-risk.
Episode digest
written during extraction and stored in data/extractions/ep057.json — the auditable source of truth, including everything market-adjacent that did not earn a capture
Aired 10 days after Omicron was first sequenced in South Africa and one day before the actual top for high-multiple software — ARKK was already ~30% off its February high while the S&P sat near a record, and the Fed had just abandoned 'transitory'. LABEL ANOMALY, WHOLE FILE: Jason and Friedberg are SWAPPED in the spoken.md labels. Receipts: the label-Friedberg turn at 0:54 does Jason's own roll-call intro of the other three and then says 'And I'm of course Jake'; label-Friedberg at 12:15 says 'I guess, Friedberg, let's go to you to talk about the new variant'; label-Friedberg at 12:44 says 'I went to school at night, so I didn't have the college experience' (Jason's Fordham night school); label-Friedberg at 21:28 says 'correct me if I'm wrong, Friedberg'; label-Friedberg at 42:17 says 'it's to your point, Friedberg'; label-Friedberg at 1:16:55 does the sign-off roll call and goes to get a Cuban sandwich with Sacks in Miami. Conversely the entire Omicron science block (13:36-15:32: 30 spike mutations, R0 up to 40, Trevor Bedford, South Africa test positivity) is labelled Jason, label-Jason at 13:17 asks the Miami pair 'Why aren't you guys together right now?' (he is the remote one), label-Jason at 54:45 says 'Sacks, it seems like you and J Cal and everyone are kind of in Miami at Art Basel', and — the cleanest receipt of all — Sacks at 1:12:52 says 'I want to respond to what Friedberg said... Friedberg is exactly right about where the Internet stood 10 years ago', responding to the long turn at 1:10:34 that the file labels Jason. Every attribution in this file is therefore content-derived, not label-derived; Chamath (nothing burger, MP Materials/Fortress, body-scan BMI, 'don't mess with the Browns') and Sacks (Pelosi/SF, Keith Rabois coffee, Chesa Boudin, Kyle Rittenhouse) are correctly labelled. The short pronunciation banter at 12:48-13:12 is locally noisy (Chamath says 'Try it again, J Cal' after a turn labelled Jason) — no captures were taken from it. THE TECH SELLOFF is the episode. Four voices land on rate-driven-growth-derating from four angles: Chamath discloses he started trimming a week to 10 days before the drawdown and has sold $600-700M of stuff this year (Satya sold $300M/half his position, Elon $10B — 'this is what I think smart market participants do'), and names the cohort by ticker (Snowflake, Peloton, Cloudflare, Zoom at 70-100x revenue being re-rated 'irrespective of the quality of the company'); Sacks supplies the mechanism and the longest horizon in the episode ('the next decade may not be as good for growth stocks' — logged as a 120-month hint on a 12-month idea, not as a horizon extension); Friedberg does the DCF arithmetic out loud (a 3.5% ten-year means you discount from five years out, not ten, so 'it's a little bit harder to make a bet on a 10-year horizon because interest rates are no longer 0%'); Jason frames it as the end of the era of giving companies a decade of forward-looking credit and names Rivian and crypto as the same trade. Chamath is the only one who refuses to close the door, and he does it well: 'there have been 71 or two of these moments since 2009', 2018 was Powell being 'completely wrong' before the market 'violently snapped back', so 'it's too early to tell' — captured as a strength-2 sentiment support on the E029 top-tier-tech-decade-hold counter-idea, which is where his simultaneous-truth position belongs. He also, in the same breath, gives the single most actionable thing in the episode: money-losing businesses selling cash flows 10-12 years out are uninvestable, 'but there is one kind of version of that company... and what I am still buying, which is deep physical science and R&D', because 'the outcome in success is so asymmetric', while he is de-levering everything else. That is the only new idea coined here — nothing in the registry expresses 'deep-science R&D is the buyable long-duration asymmetry'; ARKQ primary, with MP (the Fortress deal he names in this same episode) and ACHR adjacent. OMICRON split cleanly onto the bear and bull sides that already existed: Friedberg's transmissibility case (R0 possibly 40 vs measles' 12-13, 30 mutations off the evolutionary track, 'incredibly good evasiveness around people that have the vaccine', 'it's going to spread like crazy') goes to E037 covid-variant-wave-tough-winter at strength 3 with receipts, while he pointedly refuses a severity call ('we'll know in the next two weeks'); his separate policy-overreaction worry (press hysteria drives policymakers, 'are we about to face more lockdowns... and how are markets going to react? And that seems pretty scary right now') goes to his own E023 post-vaccine-fear-drag idea rather than being double-logged on the variant idea. Chamath ('complete fucking nothing burger', 'even more impotent than Delta', 'there may be a variant that matters, but this is not it') and Sacks ('we're not going back to lockdowns no matter what happens with the Omicron thing... there's nothing that policymakers can do to stop it') both go to E038 delta-variant-no-reopening-reversal at strength 3 — that idea's kill date is 2022-01-03, so this is its last reinforcement before it scores, and it is worth noting they were about to be right on lockdowns and wrong on the severity of the January wave's economic effect. Sacks' 'the only thing that seems to work is vaccines and booster shots' lands on covid-boosters-antivirals-standard; Friedberg's 'it'll be a seasonal disease... unlikely that it's going to be eradicated through vaccination' on covid-boosters-become-routine. INFLATION is the real fight, and it is Chamath vs Friedberg with both men bringing data. Chamath's is a pure deglobalization-reflation restatement: China is creating a state holding company for all its rare earths ('their own OPEC'), the US decapitated its own energy investment starting in 2016, 'we don't have rare earths, we don't have lithium, we don't have nickel, we don't have cobalt, we don't have graphite, so we actually can't make the batteries', fixing it 'is going to take a decade' and trillions, therefore 'structural inflation is here... prices go up' and 'we're going to have a few years of pain'. Logged at strength 3 on E023 deglobalization-reflation with a 120-month hint (the 'take a decade' framing is in the quote), plus battery-metals-input-squeeze, supply-chain-resilience-reshoring (positioning — MP Materials with Fortress), enhanced-ui-labor-shortage (2.1M lost immigrants, teachers quitting for Amazon, boomer inheritances — 'fewer people to do the work... you're going to have to pay more'), and stimulus-inflation-real (the January conforming-mortgage limit going to ~$1M lets homeowners pull equity out — 'I think that people will spend that money'). Friedberg takes the other side with receipts and gets logged on inflation-fades-breakevens: China-LA freight rates 10x'd from ~$2,000 and have now 'dropped by 50% and it's continuing to drop week after week', lumber the same, 'these pricing issues... may in fact still be transitory. We may see them work their way out at the end of 2022'. He also refuses the recession framing — the dot-com, GFC and COVID crashes all had 'true systemic risk' and 'this time what's going on is a devaluation that doesn't have systemic risk attached to it' — logged as the only oppose in the file, against E051 supply-chain-stagflation-recession. He undercuts himself in the same turn (money supply up 50%, wages only go up, government never spends less, 'the jury is still out'), which is why he is strength 2 and not 3. VC'S GREAT RESIGNATION produced three real captures on Sacks' own E049 risk-capital-golden-era-peaks: Sacks had coffee with Keith Rabois the morning of the tweet and reports the actual reasoning ('there's no question that multiples and valuations are going to come down... a lot of younger founders and investors who never lived through a bear market... about to get a rude awakening', plus the one-over-N argument for why non-principals leave), Chamath adds the private-market plumbing (public multiples down 30-50% and the public market is the ultimate buyer, so anyone planning an IPO in 'the next 12 to 18 months' is stuck — 18-month hint), and Jason adds the cycle-top behaviour tell ('everybody's in some sort of mad dash to secure some bag by any means necessary... no focus on the customers and the product and the team'). SPAC-boom-unwind got a genuinely non-obvious pair: Friedberg reports from bankers that new SPAC/PIPE issuance is coming with converts, preferred returns and seniority so investors can protect their private marks, and Chamath refuses to bless it — 'like bringing Pepto-Bismol to Mexico... either change the price or change the company'. SF/CALIFORNIA: Jason's first-hand Union Square report (Louis Vuitton knocked off by 30-40 people, Zara/Gap/Nike all boarded up in pitch black, appointment-only Christmas shopping, police blockades at every intersection) and Sacks announcing 'I'm definitely out of here' plus the Chesa Boudin zero-bail receipts are two strength-3 reinforcements of E039 california-sf-decline, five weeks before Boudin's recall campaign qualified. JACK DORSEY / TWITTER produced NO mentions on purpose, and this is the ticker problem: the two real claims are Sacks predicting Twitter slides into heavier censorship under Parag Agrawal ('things are only going to get worse once he's gone', citing Agrawal's 2020 line that Twitter needn't follow First Amendment principles) and Friedberg predicting the new private-media policy hands the user-generated-video market to TikTok ('TikTok is going to end up soaking up this whole market'). TWTR is unusable (taken private 2022, no price series) and TikTok/ByteDance was never listed, so there is no honest instrument for either — inventing a META or SNAP proxy would have inverted Friedberg's actual claim (he says the restrictive incumbents lose to the permissive one). Both are recorded here and nowhere else. NOT CAPTURED: the Pelosi-retiring-to-Florida and Sweden/lockdown-retrospective blocks (backward-looking, no instrument); Sacks' full closing argument on 2016 and platform censorship (politics, no instrument); the entire Bloomberg $750M charter-school / Cecily Myart-Cruz teachers-union segment (Chamath table-pounding but no tradeable claim — deliberately NOT logged against free-community-college-hits-forprofit-colleges, which is a different mechanism); Sacks on Indian-American CEOs and Jason's staple-a-green-card-to-the-degree immigration riff; Friedberg's Art Basel / 'NFT Basel' complaint (about creatives being priced out, not about NFT valuations, so no brush_off logged on nft-digital-art-durable); Friedberg's vague Web3-as-the-next-second-act line (no concrete claim, no instrument); the body-scan/BMI cold open and the Sacks-connection-drops bit. DISCLOSED POSITIONING: Chamath trimming ahead of the drawdown and $600-700M sold in 2021, actively de-levering the portfolio, still buying deep physical science and R&D, and the MP Materials/Fortress deal as his own decentralization play; Sacks confirming he is leaving San Francisco. Read to the end — final turn 1:16:55 (Jason's sign-off, Chamath having left early for another meeting).