E66: $FB's big drop, Rogan/Spotify mess, Xi/Putin meetup & supply chain issues with Ryan Petersen
2022-02-05 spoken.md · speaker-labeled ▶ watch ← E65 all episodes E67 →
Every number here is replayed from score_events — the same ledger the pool ranks on. Decay is what the 96 ideas nobody mentioned gave up this week; it applies only when an episode is processed.
Tier crossings
conviction thresholds crossed by this episode — 65 / 45 / 15 · ideas born here show where they landed. why 65 isn't always green
Kill dates that landed since E65
1 hit · 0 partial · 0 miss — windows that closed after 2022-01-29 and up to 2022-02-05, auto-scored against price data and never hand-set. verdict · R · α
| idea | verdict | R | α | closed |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 📈 GameStop mania ends very badly for late buyers | HIT | +56.5% | +37.5 | 2022-01-30 |
Who moved the board
each voice's force on conviction this episode — supports and opposes, weighted exactly as the replay applied them · share = % of this episode's movement
What got argued (19 ideas)
ordered by how hard each idea moved · quotes are verbatim from the transcript, timestamps deep-link into the episode
Because lead times doubled to 115 days, importers had to forecast demand twice as far out and over-ordered; when consumers rotate spend back to restaurants and travel, the goods arrive into falling demand. Mid-market retail and direct-to-consumer e-commerce - the operators without sophisticated demand planning - are left holding inventory they paid record freight to ship and cannot sell, while the big vertically integrated buyers who can pay for freight priority manage through it.
So I'm really worried that we're going to find out in six months or in some time period in the future here, that people have ordered way too many goods, that these companies expected demand to stay high and keep booming. ... At some point, consumers start going to restaurants and start traveling a lot more. You get pre-COVID consumption patterns, and all these companies get stuck with way too much inventory, that they paid way too much to ship and get delivered and they can't sell it. And so I'd be very worried for like, middle market kind of retail, direct to consumer ecom, these types of businesses that aren't very sophisticated in demand planning and end up with way too much inventory.
And so it seems like the bigger companies who have influence were able to manage through it. These smaller companies, to your point, who really do rely on many actors in the supply chain have been really thrown left and right that they probably don't know where demand really is.
The container system does not normalise: door-to-door transit is already 115 days versus 50 pre-pandemic, the ILWU West Coast contract expires July 1 2022, and the IMO's January 1 2023 rule forces every existing ship to cut carbon emissions 13% - achievable on an internal combustion engine only by sailing about 30% slower, which removes roughly that much effective capacity from the network. Container rates, already up ~10x from the $2,000 norm, go higher rather than mean-reverting, and the rule achieves no actual carbon reduction because the same containers move on the same ships.
But it will reduce the supply of shipping capacity and slow everything down another 30 percent. That takes place January 1st, 2023 It's getting very little attention, but to my view, it's going to be massively disruptive if we slow everything down, reduce the capacity of the network that much further. Prices are going to go to the moon.
One is that when they talked about usage kind of flattening and starting to decay, what they're really talking about is TikTok. And I think what we learned is that TikTok is an enormous threat and a huge competitive force now in the consumer social app ecosystem. ... The second is that Facebook is fundamentally an app that sits inside of an ecosystem that is subject to the rules of the platform owner, and that's Apple and Google. And so this IDFA change, so the change in how you can track advertisers, Facebook said is going to have a $10 billion impact in 2022
Well, they're losing $10 billion a year now because of this one permissions change that Apple has made, right? Because they're completely dependent on Apple's operating system for a big portion of their revenue. So, what is their defense against that? I mean, they're really pretty helpless.
It says a majority of voters, 55% say COVID should be treated as an endemic disease, while a majority of Democrats say it should be continued to be treated as an emergency. ... The Monmouth poll just came out where 89% of Republicans, 71% of of independents say that it's time we accept COVID is here to stay and we need to get on with our lives. ... So the reality is that the rest of the country, I think, has moved on. It's ready to move on.
Yeah, I mean, it's a bubble move. Because, look, when you're in an up market and the market is super frothy, we had in hindsight last year was a giant asset bubble funded by all this liquidity coming out of the Fed and the federal government. So yeah, in a bubble like that, all investors care about is the growth story. And so Facebook went all in on this story around Metaverse ... They lost 6 billion last year. They lost 10 billion this year. So the losses are escalating. ... But Facebook basically took themselves out of the sort of the market leader bucket and put themselves in the growth bucket.
Have you played the games where you like move continuously through space? And like when you do that, it's like you're going to throw up. I mean, I'm not sure that this notion that that becomes the new computing modality is like a fair and true notion. ... it may end up becoming kind of a niche entertainment device, almost like a Nintendo Switch where there's a, you know, a mode when you're using it. But I'm not sure it replaces traditional static two dimensional computing in front of you. The jury's still out.
In all of these things, when you build hardware, I think you can take a lot of parallels from what happened in the PC space. ... The value created to the application layer, to the operating system, and the people that can actually build ecosystems are typically the ones that win, and the people that already have an ecosystem and all they have to do is port somebody from, you know, platform A to platform B, has a meaningful advantage over somebody that has to convince you to come to a new platform altogether. ... If you play that out in VR, what you really need is just a bag full of cash because if you give developers a subsidized incentive to build for your platform, they'll do it. So then, again, if you rank the companies, you just need to look at how much cash do they have because those with the most cash have it.
It's a great point you bring up because they also started investing in their own chipset. And I think all of that chipset innovation gives them a dramatic advantage in having smaller batteries and more processing power in a headset. If it does work, which what chips does, what chip asset does Facebook have? None.
One thing I'll say in defense of Facebook is I think that all of this anti-trust scrutiny is a little bit ridiculous today, and it looks pretty ridiculous. ... It seems that capitalism is pretty much working as intended because if you looked at Google's results, if you looked at Snap's results, at Pinterest's results, at Amazon's results, there is a vibrant and growing advertising ecosystem. By no means could you claim that Facebook has any real monopoly on that, number one. ... And so anybody that thinks that Facebook is a monopoly today, I think is a little misguided. ... And so trying to legislate them as a monopoly in that ecosystem is insane today.
Yeah, look, who should get regulated on antitrust grounds? Apple. You know, Apple is, and maybe Google. Why? Well, they're the big monopolists. I mean, they control the operating system. ... There are real antitrust concerns with those three companies, the Facebook way less so. And yet they get the brunt of the attacks.
And so the result will actually show up down the road when all of a sudden they miss revenue three, four quarters down the road. And that's why I've been saying for a couple of shows now that the biggest thing I'm concerned about is when the revenue shortfalls start to hit the companies that are dependent on these supply chains. ... And just this quarter with the quarterly earnings, we're now seeing that the company yesterday that reported called Ingredion, their big food ingredients company, and they just reported how supply chain problems have now backed up to affect. And the stock was down like 10%, 11% yesterday.
That's an enormous capital problem that these companies now all of a sudden will face, right? So like, the next step beyond all of the supply chain issues could be, and I think Sacks has been talking about this a lot, like a pretty bad recession if these companies have all this inventory and they don't know how to get working capital.
This is the beginning of the end of US cultural and economic influence globally, or dominance, rather influence globally. And I think that it's, you know, something that we've talked about quite a lot. You know, I mentioned in the prediction episode that I thought that Putin was going to play a major role this year. ... he's clearly not just, you know, out for his own interests, but he's going to play a really important role in China's rise to economic and cultural dominance.
So I think there is good news where part of the strategic vital interests for Taiwan is because they have critical resources that we need, and we depend on, and specifically those are semiconductors. We have now, I think, allocated 50, $100 billion of capital, of CapEx across a bunch of companies that have committed to building domestic capability.
And you know, what was PayPal doing? I wrote a story for Barry Weiss, for her substack about how PayPal was taking the lead in financial deplatforming. They were working with the ADL and the SPLC to kick to identify groups to kick off their platform. So that's what management was spending their cycles on figuring out how not to grow, how to kick people off their platform and trying to figure out how to get more people on it. ... You can waste your management cycles on stuff like that. Now their stock is down 25%.
Flexport already made this technology. We could 10x the throughput of one of these ports overnight ... We already have this tech. So it's a matter of implementation, deployment, and how do you get around a lot of people that don't really want to see better running ports. And it's pretty sad to sit where I sit.
Well, I think the trade did what it was supposed to do, which is in a period of a lot of volatility. I saw an opportunity to, you know, just reduce my risk exposure. ... And the best way that I figured out how to do that was to do the spread trade. And so, you know, what I saw at the time was that there is one business above all others that I think is immune amongst big tech from any sort of real long-term issues, and that's Microsoft. ... The second safest company is Google. And the reason is that Google has the best of both worlds. ... And I just kind of wanted to create a spread between those who were the most inoculated to those that were the most at risk. As it turned out, Netflix puked it up. Facebook puked it up.
He is the biggest figure in independent journalism. He gets 11 million viewers every week. ... And the same week, we saw that Tucker Carlson now gets more young Democrats listening to his show than CNN and MSNBC. And I'm telling you, this is the reason why.
but also I saw that clearly we were going to go through a period where that high growth tech was going to trade down. So I sold some of that high growth tech ... And what he said was when you see a drawdown, meaning when the markets go down, it'll affect high growth tech first. It ended up touching a bunch of other areas. Second, like biotech. But he said this key thing, which is Big Tech will be the last to crack. But when they do, they are going to get shot.
There's $17 billion allocated to ports. I went and read it and I couldn't find any money that was going to be spent on building ports. It was like, study this. ... it's like things like, oh, each state must create our supply chain readiness report about it's like, what are you talking about? ... But like to then create studies and consultants, I don't know that any of it's going to hit the ground and shovel.
There's a term in Washington, which is called the Christmas tree bill. And the infrastructure bill is an example of that, which is this is not a directed shot on goal. What this is is a random tree that you go and hang little things on top of. ... And so to your point, the fact that Ryan can say there's 17 billion dollars allocated to something like ports, but it's unclear to him who's an expert in the space where that money goes and how it's spent gives us zero chance of figuring this out.
I think that politicians are using the threat of regulation to try and drive the speech policies they want on these social networks. That's what's really going on. ... Because the people in Washington are trying to coerce Facebook into controlling what they call misinformation, which is really just speech they don't like. And that is highly inappropriate.
And in all these cases, from Google to YouTube to Twitter and now to Spotify, the idea of being just an access, a platform for access is proving to be wrong. All of them are de facto publishers. They ultimately have to make decisions about what they do and don't let on the platform. ... And now they're finding that there is no way to avoid being treated like a publisher. And a publisher has someone that's called an editor and an editor decides what is and isn't put on that publishing platform, as has always been the case in old media.
In my view, that would be a shame if we we have the best companies in the world who need to be able to source raw materials, components, finished goods anywhere on planet Earth. And we should have a modern infrastructure that makes that possible instead of being like, oh, we can't trade with the rest of the world. So we're going to become like self-sufficient. ... But you're right. That might be an end result is people can't rely on these supply chains and start saying, hey, let's manufacture at home or let's manufacture in Latin America. Let's manufacture closer to home. To my perspective, that would be a shame.
And so we have to make sure we follow through on that and that's successful. And the reason is that it gives us optionality. ... And so we have to invest in the United States. So the solution to all of these things is we cannot be overly dependent on any one country, any one shipping lane, any one product, any one natural resource. You just can't do that anymore.
Episode digest
written during extraction and stored in data/extractions/ep066.json — the auditable source of truth, including everything market-adjacent that did not earn a capture
E66 aired 2022-02-05, two days after META fell 26% in a single session - the largest one-day market-cap loss in US history at the time - and the episode is essentially a post-mortem on which of the besties' standing bear theses actually did the damage. LABEL ANOMALY (severe, novel shape): Friedberg has ZERO labelled turns despite being named in the intro ('the Sultan of Science, formerly known as the Queen of Quinoa... David Friedberg') and addressed by name five times, and he was absorbed not into Jason's label - the usual E025/E064 failure - but into the GUEST label, Ryan Petersen (70 turns). Receipts: Jason asks 'Okay, so Friedberg, I have a question for you about the future' (55:28) and the answering turn at 56:33 is labelled Ryan Petersen; Jason asks 'Friedberg on the non-pology' (1:09:14) and the 1:10:59 answer is labelled Ryan Petersen; 'mRNA is a new technology, right, Friedberg?' (1:25:50) is answered at 1:25:56 by label-Ryan with 'Don't draw me into your cancel debate here.' The split point is clean: Jason signs Ryan off at 45:33 ('Listen, Ryan, thanks a lot. Great Bestie Guestie appearance') and Ryan says goodbye at 45:40, so EVERY 'Ryan Petersen' turn after 45:40 is Friedberg (confirmed by content - the 1:03:09 turn does the AdSense/publisher-CPM history from the inside, ex-Google receipts). Before 45:40 the label is mostly the real Ryan, but several turns are merged Friedberg-question-plus-Ryan-answer pairs that had to be split by hand (8:55 contains 'it feels to me, Ryan, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong' plus Friedberg's own 'we've got a lot of lab businesses and hardware businesses'; 13:46 and 19:05 both end with Friedberg's question 'right, Ryan?' followed by Ryan's answer; 32:33 is labelled Chamath but contains Ryan's reply). Hosts Chamath and Sacks content-check clean (Sacks does the PayPal-IPO Thiel chess story and cites his own Bari Weiss substack piece; Chamath does 'the project that I started' on the Facebook phone). THE META DROP - four live bear ideas, and the winner is Apple's ATT: Chamath walked Facebook's three named headwinds (TikTok taking usage, the IDFA change worth '$10 billion impact in 2022', and blocked inorganic growth) and Sacks table-pounded the same mechanism - 'they're losing $10 billion a year now because of this one permissions change that Apple has made... they're really pretty helpless' - with Friedberg adding that hardware dependence 'was always going to be a weak point for them' while exempting Google, whose AdSense-plus-network lock-in 'will persist'. That is three voices on apple-privacy-hits-ad-models-2021 (E36), the thesis that literally just paid off. The metaverse leg got hit separately and just as hard: Sacks called the rebrand 'a bubble move', priced the VR division at 6bn last year to 10bn this year and said Facebook 'took themselves out of the market leader bucket and put themselves in the growth bucket'; Friedberg said VR makes you throw up and ends up 'a niche entertainment device, almost like a Nintendo Switch'; Chamath ran the Wintel/Intel-Inside framework to conclude the winner is whoever has the most developers and the most cash (Facebook has the least of both, per Jason), while hedging that 'we should not say that Facebook is down and out'. DISCLOSED POSITIONING - the money quote of the episode: Chamath confirmed his big-tech spread trade 'did what it was supposed to do', named the legs (Microsoft 'immune amongst big tech', Google 'the second safest company', short the most-at-risk - 'Netflix puked it up. Facebook puked it up'), which is exactly software-quality-inflation-hedge-2021 (E53) realised, and he gave both triggers: Elon and Jeff selling (everything-bubble-insiders-de-risk-2021, his own E55 call) and 'clearly we were going to go through a period where that high growth tech was going to trade down. So I sold some of that high growth tech' (rate-driven-growth-derating-2021, six weeks before its kill date), plus the Gavin Baker sequencing - high growth first, biotech second, 'Big Tech will be the last to crack. But when they do, they are going to get shot.' PROPOSER REVERSAL: Chamath, who coined big-tech-antitrust-breakup-2021 at E31 with the four-monopolies-gone-by-end-of-decade call, now says 'all of this anti-trust scrutiny is a little bit ridiculous today', that capitalism 'is pretty much working as intended' with Google, Snap, Pinterest and a $31B Amazon ad line as receipts, and that 'trying to legislate them as a monopoly in that ecosystem is insane today' - flagged as a reversal even though it is scoped to Facebook, because he argues the monopoly premise itself is wrong. Sacks re-routed the same idea instead of abandoning it: the real antitrust defendants are Apple, maybe Google and Amazon-basics, 'the Facebook way less so', and the pressure on Facebook is speech regulation wearing an antitrust mask (big-tech-common-carrier-regulation-2021). Friedberg took the other side of common carrier entirely - platforms are de facto publishers, 'there is no way to avoid being treated like a publisher', which is an oppose. Sacks also landed a clean hit on his own financial-deplatforming idea, using PayPal's 25% drop as the receipt for management spending its cycles on ADL/SPLC ban lists instead of growth. RYAN PETERSEN, the highest-signal guest content in this wave: 115 days door-to-door across Flexport's book versus 50 pre-pandemic; volumes flat year over year but delays still lengthening ('a very worrisome sign'); container rates $2,000 normal, $550 in 2016, $20,000 last year; Ingredion down 10-11% the previous day as the first visible earnings casualty; and two new ideas because nothing in the registry fit. First, the IMO carbon rule taking effect January 1 2023 forces every existing ship to cut emissions 13%, achievable only by sailing 30% slower, so effective capacity drops again and 'prices are going to go to the moon' (ocean-freight-crunch-persists-2022). Second, the inventory-glut call - lead times doubled so importers over-ordered, consumers rotate back to services, and 'middle market kind of retail, direct to consumer ecom, these types of businesses that aren't very sophisticated in demand planning' eat the write-downs while the vertically integrated giants who can pay for freight priority manage through, which Chamath set up independently at 12:52 (inventory-glut-hits-midmarket-retail-2022). He also DISSENTED from two live theses: reshoring 'would be a shame' and is a failure mode rather than a goal (oppose on supply-chain-resilience-reshoring-2021, which Chamath then supported at strength 3 with 'we cannot be overly dependent on any one country, any one shipping lane'), and port automation is blocked by labour politics rather than pulled forward by wage costs - Flexport already has tech to 10x port throughput and cannot deploy it (oppose on labor-costs-force-automation-2021). He read the infrastructure bill and could not find money for building ports, only studies and consultants, which opposes the contractor-windfall trade while Chamath's Christmas-tree-bill framing supports the grift premise. XI/PUTIN: Friedberg reinforced his own E61 annual prediction with his own receipt - 'I mentioned in the prediction episode that I thought that Putin was going to play a major role this year' - and called it 'the beginning of the end of US cultural and economic influence globally' three weeks before the invasion (global-conflict-energy-defense, strength 3, the highest-value E61 datapoint in the episode); Chamath read the joint statement as 'we want to try to destroy US hegemony and replace it with ourselves' and closed the show restating his Taiwan silicon-chokepoint call with the $50-100B domestic-fab CapEx as evidence, with Sacks conceding 'Taiwan is a much more complicated situation. I do think we have a vital national interest there' while arguing the US drove Putin into Xi's arms over NATO. COVID: Sacks' polling (55% endemic, 89% of Republicans and 71% of independents ready to move on) and Jason's mask-free ski slopes are both opposes on post-vaccine-fear-drag-2021 two weeks before that idea's kill date. NOT CAPTURED: no SPOT idea was coined - the Rogan segment is 20 minutes of free-speech argument, Sacks' 'the Wheel of Censorship broke on Joe Rogan this week' is a culture-war verdict rather than a price claim, and Chamath's 'subscribers that probably left... subscribers that probably joined' is explicitly a non-event call, so shorting or buying SPOT off it would be instrument-fitting; also skipped were the Neil Young/boomer bit, the Tucker/Psaki politics, the union-strike scenario (Ryan explicitly declined to predict: 'So yeah, I can't make a prediction'), the Facebook-should-have-built-a-phone counterfactual, and the Fire Phone history.