Trump's Cabinet, Google's Quantum Chip, Apple's Flop, TikTok, State of VC
2024-12-13 spoken.md · speaker-labeled ▶ watch ← E206 all episodes E208 →
Every number here is replayed from score_events — the same ledger the pool ranks on. Decay is what the 128 ideas nobody mentioned gave up this week; it applies only when an episode is processed.
Tier crossings
conviction thresholds crossed by this episode — 65 / 45 / 15 · ideas born here show where they landed. why 65 isn't always green
Kill dates that landed since E206
1 hit · 0 partial · 2 miss — windows that closed after 2024-12-07 and up to 2024-12-13, auto-scored against price data and never hand-set. verdict · R · α
| idea | verdict | R | α | closed |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 🌍 Conforming-loan expansion inflates home equity into a HELOC-fuelled bust | MISS | -45.7% | -81.7 | 2024-12-11 |
| 🏛️ Speculative-competition antitrust blocks chill tech M&A | MISS | -75.1% | -108.9 | 2024-12-08 |
| 🤖 The software recession is over — net new ARR re-accelerates | HIT | +45.0% | +11.1 | 2024-12-08 |
Who moved the board
each voice's force on conviction this episode — supports and opposes, weighted exactly as the replay applied them · share = % of this episode's movement
What got argued (16 ideas)
ordered by how hard each idea moved · quotes are verbatim from the transcript, timestamps deep-link into the episode
Friedberg's claim, which Keith Rabois endorses outright: neither public-market appetite nor Lina Khan's FTC is what is blocking IPOs and M&A. The binding constraint is 2021-to-early-2023 late-stage marks - the crossover and late-stage funds that led the D and E rounds will not take a 60-70% haircut on an IPO, so they let companies sit private and try to earn back into the mark, and the same premium demand kills small tuck-in M&A. Corollary: swapping Khan for Andrew Ferguson does not reopen the exit window, and Jason adds that big-cap corp dev has gone pencils-down on build-versus-buy anyway.
But I think on the general liquidity thing, I don't think that the thing holding up acquisitions and IPOs is markets. I actually think it's investor and board expectations on valuation relative to where they put money in the last couple of years... They don't want to take these things out and take a 60, 70% haircut on the IPO. They'd rather kind of let this thing sit private and see if they can earn their way back into the valuation that they did the market when they put the round together.
But there's also a culture thing, I have to say, like in talking to a number of like the leaders of these public companies that were very inquisitive and M&A, they are taking the position it's easier for us to build a competing function, a competing adjacency than do any tuck ins. They just told the corp dev people pencils down and they are not wanting to spend a year or two on a deal when they have a breakup fee
That said, I don't believe that what she's done has affected exits very much at all.
Chamath's constructive case for tariffs: electrifying the economy needs electric motors, motors need permanent magnets, and magnets need rare earths - and it is currently impossible for a non-Chinese company to make those magnets economically because Beijing combines no environmental controls with a subsidy it will inject into any supply chain that tries to compete. A targeted tariff works as a reverse subsidy that stops that undercutting, and stacked on DOE subsidies and underwriting it makes US rare-earth, magnet and lithium supply chains viable. Jason adds that US deposits exist and only environmental regulation keeps them in the ground.
But as it turns out, it is impossible for any company that is not a Chinese company to be able to manufacture these magnets in an economically viable way... So what do you do, Jason? If you can observe that and realize that we want supply chain diversity, what the tariff does is it starts to push back on those kinds of activities because it doesn't allow it to continue to work.
It's because of environmental regulations. It's the same thing with Starship going up. We got a lot of regulations in this country. I understand people want to do the right thing, but we also have a lot of debt. If we could start mining Rare Earths metals here and maybe loosen the regulations.
Google's Willow chip is the first demonstration that quantum error rates FALL as you add physical qubits to a logical qubit (3x3 to 5x5 to 7x7), which Friedberg calls the Shockley-transistor moment for quantum. Chamath's read is that ~4,000 stable logical qubits break RSA-2048 and ~8,000 break the SHA-256 that secures Bitcoin, so within a couple of years all software and every blockchain has to migrate to post-quantum encryption. The investable read is that Alphabet owns the frontier and the pure-play quantum complex gets bid on the milestone; Keith Rabois takes the other side that commercial application is at least a decade out and the benchmark may not even be verifiable.
And so we're now kind of spitting distance or a couple of years. It's not really clear. Is it three years, five years, seven years? But a couple of years away from having computers that theoretically could crack all encryption standards... And all of computing and all software is going to need to move to post quantum encryption in the next couple of years.
First of all, I think there's a long time before this becomes a commercial product or application of any sort. So it's great that they're taking money, but think about it as almost like Stanford takes money or the US government funds basic research in some ways. This is at least a decade out kind of thing.
You don't even have to have a conversation. In my view, TikTok is a threat to the national security of the United States.
So if they'll do it to their own people, they would have no problem doing it to an adversary and, ask yourself, if the shareholders care about money, they would be willing to divest, right? No problem. They want to take the company public. So if you won't divest and get off the board as the CCP, it's because you see this as a valuable tool, right?
So I think you're going to see real tariffs, like especially against China. And the Trump administration is completely committed to reducing inflation, the cost of eggs and groceries. And I think those things can be reconciled.
You're not the only person. People are freaking out about the interface changes on Photos, crashing is a major thing, and Apple Intelligence just doesn't work. So it does seem, Keith, that Apple has gotten off their game of making polished stuff to race to try and, I guess, catch up to their perception of AI being a disruptive force at the interface level
And then playing on a field that's not favorable to them, which is there are advantages Apple has in AI, but there's some significant organizational structural disadvantages. And that's the field that people are going to be competing on for the next five years from a consumer perspective. And they're playing on a field where they don't have all the advantages in their favor.
And but now, like my photos app is completely unusable. So I totally understand, you know, Chamath, the frustration and they are showing like the decay function, you know, culturally and otherwise, that eventually somebody will figure out an angle to rip them out.
So the most important thing about Apple is to remember it's vertically integrated, and vertically integrated companies, when you construct them properly, have a competitive advantage that really cannot be assaulted for a decade, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. And so chips, classic illustration, go all the way down to the metal, build a chip that's perfect for your desired interface, your desired use cases, your desired UI, and nobody's going to be able to compete with you.
By the way, a different version of this, I wrote this in my weekly newsletter, but I was curious why these Chinese models are so good. And I was like, the training of these models seems to be quite fast. The quality of these models are really good, the Alibaba model, et cetera. And part of what you realize is when they do their training runs, the Chinese models have no guardrails in the sense that there's no copyright checks.
And the wrath of LenaCon is officially over. She's out. Andrew Ferguson is in. This looks like a great appointment, another one by Trump in the column of somebody who wants to allow business to occur and wants a free market. He wants to do basically everything LenaCon didn't do, which is allow some M&A.
So if you actually were to sit down and do the Black Scholes modeling of the value of the synthetic call option that he's selling you with the convertible note, there's a reason people are paying for it. They think that there's value there. So there's certainly something to the structure that makes sense.
I think a lot of people had been hesitant to start new crypto companies, and there's a belief and confidence in the new administration, the SEC, etc.
My anecdotal experience is there's AI companies where the market's pretty hot, maybe cooling a little bit, but hot, and AI companies with the right team are getting funded frequently, quickly, etc.
I think that the United States economy is too complicated to be managed by theoreticians, by folks with random PhDs and absolutely no working experience in the real world. And when you bring those people in to oversee those PhDs, I think you probably get better outcomes.
Episode digest
written during extraction and stored in data/extractions/ep207.json — the auditable source of truth, including everything market-adjacent that did not earn a capture
Sacks was absent (he'd just joined the administration; Jason announces it on air) and Keith Rabois guest-hosted, so this is a four-voice episode with a real VC practitioner in the red chair. The market meat is Google's Willow quantum chip: Friedberg and Chamath both treat below-threshold error correction as a step change and put a two-to-five-year clock on RSA-2048 and Bitcoin's SHA-256, while Rabois takes the direct other side - commercial application is at least a decade out, the RCS benchmark may not even be verifiable, all software would have to be rewritten, and Khosla has repeatedly looked at quantum and never written a check. Apple is the episode's punching bag: Chamath's iOS 18 rant (phone and Photos broken, iPhone 10-30% less usable) and Rabois' taste-decay-plus-no-data-scaffolding diagnosis land as support on peak-Apple, and Jason - the original proposer of the E160 'Apple makes huge AI gains in 2024' prediction - concedes three weeks before its kill date that 'Apple Intelligence just doesn't work', which is logged as a reversal. Rabois separately pounds the vertical-integration moat (a decade-plus advantage, chips down to the metal), so his Apple view is genuinely two-sided and both halves are captured on their own ideas. On VC, Friedberg's claim that the exit drought is 2021-23 late-stage marks rather than markets or Lina Khan gets an outright '100% agree' from Rabois and is coined as a new bearish idea; Jason takes the other side of the Khan leg (Ferguson reopens M&A) as an oppose on the E188 antitrust-survives idea. Rabois is unambiguous that TikTok is a national-security threat and that the CCP will name no price, and Chamath's Pegasus-style backdoor argument reinforces it. Both he and Chamath push back hard on the stagflation thesis - tariffs can be raised without inflation via substitution - and Chamath's rare-earth/permanent-magnet reverse-subsidy argument became the third new idea. CONFLICTS AND JUDGMENT CALLS: (1) Chamath is long rare earths (MP Materials/Intellis per his own prior disclosures), so the critical-minerals idea is his book - MP is the primary play anyway because it is the only honest US instrument. (2) Rabois' husband Jacob had just been named undersecretary of state for economic affairs, and Rabois is unusually invested in the TikTok and tariff positions of that administration; captured normally, but the conflict is real. (3) Chamath's 'hard for an outsider to comprehend what's inside Google, the business they built was able to fund this' is logged as an OPPOSE on the E192 sum-of-parts breakup idea he himself helped birth - the registry says all four besties converged there, so per the brief it is oppose, not reversal. (4) His 'Chinese models are really good and train fast' is logged as a weak oppose on Gavin Baker's E206 export-controls idea; he never mentions compute, so the fit is inferential. DELIBERATE NON-CAPTURES: Chamath's 'they're waiting to get disrupted by crypto stablecoins' (Stripe, 1:06:40) is a one-line aside and the stablecoin thread is already owned by E209's stablecoins-2025, so coining an E207 duplicate would be worse than skipping it - flagged here instead. Rabois' 'crypto's primary use case is still speculation' has no directional price claim and no registry home. Apple's Baltra inference chip (Broadcom/TSMC, mass production 2026) was pure news restatement with no directional call on Nvidia. Rabois' 'Sheen is going to have some real problems in the new administration' is untradeable (private). Jason's BYD-would-decimate-US-and-German-automakers line is conditional on market access and cuts both ways on german-economy-loser-2024, so it was left out. Rabois' 'quantum is at least a decade out' and his 'vertical integration cannot be assaulted for 20-50 years' framings both exceed the 36-month cap, so no horizon hints were set from them; the quantum idea's 24-month horizon comes from Friedberg's stated 'a couple of years'. CLIP QUARANTINE: SPEAKER_5's two turns (2:09 and 1:27:28) are the show's own 'we open sourced it to the fans' theme-song sample, not a person; nothing attributed. A 'guy with the fake bum' clip and an unplayed Steve Jobs archive clip Rabois offered to find were also non-events.