E132

E132: SEC goes after crypto giants, Sequoia splits, LIV/PGA, Messi's deal + LIVE Q&A!

2023-06-10 spoken.md · speaker-labeled ▶ watch ← E131 all episodes E133 →

2
ideas born
15
ideas moved
29
captures · 4 voices
5
dissenting
+222.4
conviction added
-115.5
decay · 113 silent

Every number here is replayed from score_events — the same ledger the pool ranks on. Decay is what the 113 ideas nobody mentioned gave up this week; it applies only when an episode is processed.

Tier crossings

conviction thresholds crossed by this episode — 65 / 45 / 15 · ideas born here show where they landed. why 65 isn't always green

▲ +22.0 🪙 Crypto collapse triggers a multi-year enforcement and litigation wave watch green threshold 57.7 → 79.6 still watch — green gate not met
▲ +67.1 🪙 SEC suits drive the US crypto exchanges offshore born at green threshold 67.1 still dormant — green gate not met
▲ +59.2 📈 Star athletes take the equity off the sports owners born at watch 59.2
▲ +24.8 🏛️ US capital gets walled off from Chinese AI and advanced tech ember watch 34.0 → 58.8
▲ +10.7 🏛️ Deposit-insurance reform gets paid for out of bank equity dormant ember 14.7 → 25.4

Who moved the board

each voice's force on conviction this episodesupports and opposes, weighted exactly as the replay applied them · share = % of this episode's movement

Chamath
Chamath
9 captures · 33% of movement · 1 idea born
+85.3 / -7.7 → net +77.5
Sacks
Sacks
7 captures · 28% of movement · 1 idea born
+68.5 / -9.3 → net +59.2
Jason
Jason
8 captures · 24% of movement
+66.3 → net +66.3
Friedberg
Friedberg
5 captures · 16% of movement
+32.2 / -12.9 → net +19.3

What got argued (15 ideas)

ordered by how hard each idea moved · quotes are verbatim from the transcript, timestamps deep-link into the episode

NEW COIN 🪙 SEC suits drive the US crypto exchanges offshore closed 9 CONTESTED ▲ +67.1 -0.0 → 67.1

The SEC's simultaneous suits against Binance and Coinbase are not a negotiation, they are a shutdown: with no registration pathway and no political appetite for clarifying legislation, the surviving exchanges preserve enterprise value by redomiciling outside the US and IP-gating American users. The listed US-regulated exchange therefore loses its home market rather than being blessed as the compliant winner.

plays COIN ·primary BTC-USD HOOD evals 2024-06-10
Jason
Jason support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 11:31
So we don't have Brian Armstrong move his company to the Middle East or an island in the Caribbean, which is what he's going to do, I predict.
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 20:35
I unfortunately think that the SEC has by and large put the entire sector into mate. And so I think that what Jason said is largely right, which is that it's going to force these companies to preserve enterprise value to leave the United States and to jurisdictionally operate from a different place and to basically IP block and IP gate US residents from using their products and services.
Sacks
Sacks support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 21:51
The government led by Gensler is in a full assault on crypto. And the goal is basically to either destroy it in the US or drive it offshore.
NEW MSGS 📈 Star athletes take the equity off the sports owners closed 11 ▲ +59.2 0.0 → 59.2

Messi's Inter Miami deal - club equity plus a revenue share from Apple's MLS rights and from Adidas - is the new template: elite athletes stop being salaried labor and start capturing the franchise and distribution economics they personally create, because they are content creators rather than employees. Agents copy the deal across the NBA and NFL, so the owner's share of franchise appreciation compresses, and Chamath's extension is that $20-30bn of capital could stand up a rival league on phantom equity the way LIV did to the PGA.

plays MSGS ·primary MANU evals 2024-06-10
Jason
Jason support ×2 sentiment ▶ 49:46
So Apple is giving him rev share on their Apple TV League pass for MLS. That's nuts.
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 50:22
So I just think it has huge implications to all the professional sports leagues because these big stars should be asking their agents and their managers, how do I do a deal like Messi? I am the ultimate content creator in my league.
Friedberg
Friedberg support ×2 sentiment ▶ 51:28
And labor is basically becoming the equity in the equation, and they are getting a piece of the business. Just like Silicon Valley.
KWEB 🏛️ US capital gets walled off from Chinese AI and advanced tech closed 12 CONTESTED ▲ +24.8 34.0 → 58.8
Jason
Jason support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 34:39
And so what really is happening is the government is going to stop all US venture investing in China. That's what's going to happen in the coming months.
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 sentiment ▶ 38:07
I think that it should be possible to do business with China without it being seen as either unpatriotic or immoral. However, there are strategic technologies that are just going to be, I think, it's too hard and too risky to be supporting China.
COIN 🪙 Crypto collapse triggers a multi-year enforcement and litigation wave closed 45 CONTESTED ▲ +22.0 57.7 → 79.6
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 9:43
And so they're coming down hard, and they're going to go and systematically dismantle the largest actors, and they're going to go through the value chain. So I think the obvious place that they're looking now are the exchanges, they'll look at the custodial services, they will not approve any ETFs.
Jason
Jason support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 11:31
Their function is to protect investors. Investors lost a bunch of money. Therefore, they are going to retroactively inflict pain and hold people accountable for their mandate, which is to protect investors.
Friedberg
Friedberg support ×2 sentiment ▶ 14:51
But as the retail market took their hits, the SEC has to step in and Congress steps in and everyone starts to say it's time to act, we should have acted sooner.
Sacks
Sacks support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 15:53
However, the case against Coinbase, they're alleging a completely different set of facts, which is effectively what Gensler and the SEC are saying is that it is not legal to operate a crypto exchange in the United States.
NVDA 🤖 Moore's law never ended - it moved to GPUs and expert systems go next level closed 55 CONTESTED ▲ +13.0 19.9 → 32.9
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 positioning ▶ 1:30:44
I've told this story before, but I pinged those guys and I was basically like, I just wanna meet the team that built the TPU. Long story short, a year later, I put them in business. And we've been building silicon for this moment for years.
MSFT 🤖 AI collapses the cost of knowledge work to ten cents on the dollar closed 28 CONTESTED ▲ +13.0 25.6 → 38.6
Chamath
Chamath support ×2 explicit_prediction 60mo horizon ▶ 1:20:27
So it's like all this stuff is going to happen where like all these classes of jobs are going to go away.
Jason
Jason support ×3 explicit_prediction 36mo horizon ▶ 1:23:01
I'm assuming it's indefinite because the amount of work it takes to write a job requisition is more work in some cases than actually automating with AI or Ready, the job function, and so I think 20-person companies might double in size in the next two or three years, but still have 20 people.
Sacks
Sacks oppose ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:24:39
So one is, I think there's a lot of AI fear porn out there right now. And I just think that like all these doomer scenarios are, they're not going to play out overnight.
MSFT 🤖 Foundation models are a big-tech oligopoly - the substrate gets given away closed 30 CONTESTED ▼ -12.9 63.5 → 50.6
Friedberg
Friedberg oppose ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:27:04
Foundational models are getting disrupted every other week. They're being decreased in size, parameters are being reduced. They're being commoditized. You can run these things on M2 chips.
XLF 🏛️ Deposit-insurance reform gets paid for out of bank equity closed 6 CONTESTED ▲ +10.7 14.7 → 25.4
Friedberg
Friedberg support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:10:45
First Republic and others have now proclaimed that they're going to start charging a lot more service fees to hold your money and they're going to start taking a lot less risk. So we're already headed in that direction.
META 🤖 Open-source models commoditize the model layer and move to the edge closed 83 ▲ +10.5 65.5 → 75.9
Friedberg
Friedberg support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:27:04
You're gonna invest in a company at a $500 million valuation and six weeks later, it's gonna be worth zero because someone opens source the exact same thing that you can now do for 100K.
Chamath
Chamath support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:30:44
Everything in the middle, I think what Friedberg said is true, which is today it looks like it's worth a couple of billion dollars, tomorrow's worth nothing. And so I think you have to be very careful.
NYT 📈 Legacy journalism is obsolete - the opinion economy takes the audience closed 60 ▲ +7.7 70.2 → 77.9
Sacks
Sacks support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:00:26
Arguably it's more distribution, it's almost certainly more distribution than he got through Fox.
Jason
Jason support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:01:33
Daily Wire is the model. I mean, they have got well over a hundred million in revenue, I understand, and they have a massive subscription business. So there's a clear path there.
BX 📈 Private capital concentrates in a few mega-GPs that take themselves public closed 41 CONTESTED ▼ -7.7 7.7 → 0.0
Chamath
Chamath oppose ×3 sentiment ▶ 28:03
Then they tried this like very convoluted evergreen structure right before the market fell apart, where you could basically become a permanent capital vehicle. And as far as I can tell from the outside looking in, it just seems like a tax, a tax play for the GPs to not have to sell and realize capital gains.
Sacks
Sacks oppose ×2 sentiment ▶ 39:14
Yeah, but I actually think retrenching is good because it simplifies things.
AAPL 🤖 Models commoditize — proprietary data is the only AI moat closed 4 CONTESTED ▲ +6.2 78.9 → 85.1
Chamath
Chamath support ×3 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:30:44
So I've used that as a way, a forcing function for me to try to prove that there's really these two barbells, it's a barbell, bookends. One is a silicon and one of these data providers. That's probably an investible thing that's defensible.
Jason
Jason support ×2 sentiment ▶ 1:36:13
I do agree with Chamath's point. Data's the new oil. Whatever data set you have that you have that's unique is incredibly powerful in terms of defensibility and could help you to outpace one of the generic models.
DJT 🏛️ The Mar-a-Lago raid makes Trump nearly unbeatable for the 2024 nomination closed 38 CONTESTED ▲ +5.8 50.0 → 55.8
Sacks
Sacks support ×1 sentiment ▶ 1:07:11
So right now, the Biden people, the Trump people and the media all want Trump over DeSantis.
META 🤖 Twitter's riff proves big tech is overstaffed - lean-opex reset ahead closed 52 CONTESTED ▲ +3.0 81.3 → 84.3
Jason
Jason support ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:23:01
My base thesis right now is that the job freezes, the hiring freezes at all these companies is indefinite.
MSFT 🤖 ChatGPT plugins make OpenAI the next great computing platform closed 25 CONTESTED ▼ +0.0 0.0 → 0.0
Chamath
Chamath oppose ×2 explicit_prediction ▶ 1:30:44
And all these Expedia examples that are plugins at GBT make no sense. They make no economic sense. Those companies should go to zero.

Episode digest

written during extraction and stored in data/extractions/ep132.json — the auditable source of truth, including everything market-adjacent that did not earn a capture

Taped days after the SEC sued Binance and Coinbase, and the crypto block is the episode: all four besties agree the enforcement wave is real and escalating, but split on motive - Sacks calls it a Gensler/Warren campaign to kill a fiat competitor, Jason says the industry knowingly sold unregistered securities, Friedberg says retail losses made it inevitable. The new call is unanimous and tradeable: Chamath says the SEC has put the sector 'into mate' and the exchanges will redomicile and IP-gate Americans, Jason predicts Armstrong relocates, Sacks says the goal is to destroy or offshore it - coined as a fresh idea because the bullish coinbase-regulated-franchise-2022 window closed 2023-04-23. On Sequoia's three-way split, Chamath trashes the mega-fund and evergreen structure as a GP tax play (another swing against his own 2022 mega-GP-consolidation call, which he already reversed at E080/E091) and repeats China is uninvestable for 30-40 years, while Jason predicts Washington bans all US venture investment in Chinese AI and chips 'in the coming months'. In the AI Q&A, Friedberg's open-source commoditization thesis got its strongest restatement ($500m model company worth zero in six weeks) and Chamath crossed to his side, pairing a data-and-silicon barbell with 'plugins at GBT make no sense, those companies should go to zero' - and disclosing his Groq silicon position outright. Diarization is essentially clean (Friedberg guest-moderated by announcement, so his 77 turns against Jason's 113 is not a rotation), but three defects: the 23:17 David Friedberg turn is Jason's line, SPEAKER_7/8/9 are host crosstalk fragments plus audience question-askers, and in the live Q&A an audience member's question at 1:19:43-1:20:27 is split across the Jason and David Samuel labels - nothing was captured from any of those.